“El Libertario" has been conducting a lengthy exchange in solidarity with a person who participates in the "Laboratory Libertarian Alfredo López" to rebuild the Cuban libertarian movement starting with the basics, as the movement against authoritarianism Castro was relentless in the last fifty years with lies, terror, repression and exile, but now is back with indomitable spirit to return to the path of struggle and ideals of people like Enrique Roig San Martín, Alfredo López, Rafael Serra, Marcelo Salinas, and public areas such as the daily "El Productor ", most of the founders of the National Confederation of Cuban Workers, the Federation of Cuban Anarchist Groups, the Libertarian Association of Cuba, the daily "Solidaridad Gastronómica", the magazine "Guángara Libertaria" and the Cuban Libertarian Movement, to name only some of the many stakeholders in the island anarchic historic trajectory. Obvious reasons prevent us from specifying who spoke with us and the circumstances under which these conversations took place. We do not even reproduce in every detail our views and our comments on Venezuela, as we express our viewpoint that can deepen from our publications and our Internet presence.
We talk about the perception that you Cubans have had on the relations between Cuba and Venezuela after Chávez's ascent to the presidency.
Initially, Chávez has awakened great expectations with the theme of co-operatives, of popular power, with the promise to redeem the spirit of Latin America, all this has had a significant impact on Cuba (and I include among those who have been affected by this initial sympathy) . Yet, in discussions between peers, since some had already begun to see opportunism and demagoguery in his speech, Chavez, and this position, with the passage of time, was established, endorsed by the facts that we had before our eyes and how we came to know from Venezuela. It is also worth mentioning our experience with the Cuban "Chavismo", that chavismo that promote the Cuban mainstream media, far more imaginative and sweetened with respect to that existing in Venezuela, with the love story of the visits of "son" to Chavez "father" Fidel, of the claims of Latin American unity, the will of the Venezuelan oil to convert into an instrument of solidarity and brotherhood, and blah, blah, blah ... He had a very strong and has aroused general sympathy with Cuba, and the fact that he was completely in tune with the Cuban official discourse of the last fifty years. But with time this climate began to cool gradually ...
But after these reports, there are tangible signs of improvement in the overall situation of the Cubans?
I would like to refer to a Cuban sociologist, Harold Dilla, according to which Venezuela has gradually replaced the Soviet Union in the role of strength defender, and that this support has to come up with the consolidation of the model of state capitalism, so that, for the Cubans, the debate about Chávez is something very important, because today is an essential element to ensure that Cuba continues to "Fidelio." That is for the Cubans are so important information that can be received both by direct contact with the Venezuelan reality as from meetings with people who allow us to get trusted information, not tainted by propaganda or by the interests of power.
I lived in Havana for a few months in the 90s, shortly after the "Periodo Especial". Everyday life was difficult because of situations like the constant power outages or transportation problems. I returned to Cuba in 2010 and the changes are significant. There have been some improvements which can be considered the result of this liason with Venezuela?
It is not that with the help of the fuel that comes from Venezuela, things have started to improve in the terms you propose, but we came back to the level of the Cuban state capitalism disguised as socialism had already proposed in the '80s, which was not neither desirable nor enviable. In fact, just to suggest topics by way of example, even if they are missing the "camels" (cargo vehicles transporting people), power cuts still occur. There is also the exploitation of nickel in the eastern part of the country, which has become a crucial voice to provide resources that can return to an economic model similar to that of the 80s, but with a much lower level of consumption.
It should however be noted that there is a difference from that era has created a dynamic production relative to agricultural cooperatives at that time did not have much strength. We see the importance assumed by urban co-operative farming, especially organic urban agriculture, where there was a momentum built from the ground up, even if there was official support when the Cuban government has realized that urban agriculture offered as a contribution to the growing and not at all be underestimated in the commission of food to cities. The change at any moment is not random, because the "Periodo Especial" has awakened the entrepreneurial creative skills within Cuban society, as if the State had failed to resolve or intention to solve problems, people had to seek a way out for your needs can be vital as food. But this process has been blocked in 2001-2002, when the state returns to resources and power, reproducing the model of control and known limitations of the past, and starts again to create obstacles to any initiative that did not come directly from him with a disastrous effect in a large number of companies in the food industry.
Is it fair to say then that the Venezuelan government has been support for this class of restrictive policies and control of the Cuban regime?
Yes, definitely ...
To return to talk about the Cuban economy, the main source revenues – tourism - has been reduced due to the current global crisis has had a major impact in Canada and Spain, the main drivers of tourism in Cuba and the price of nickel has dropped in the international market. Chavez can not send as much oil as a result of the fall which took the price of this product compared to 2008 ...
Yes, but this allows me to talk about the issue of the instability of the Cuban economy. 2010 was very difficult at this level and there is uncertainty globally, with consequences on the social and the political aspects, should be added that the system is ideologically adrift, no proposals or plans for the future of the country. All these factors make anything possible. Even a crumbling socially recognized the legitimacy of the Cuban state, that between 1992 and 1995 was very high, even though Cuba had never experienced in its history such a period of economic contraction, but the population had agreed to meet a lot of work without repudiating the established order.
Now this no longer exists, as a new factor is added to this crisis is just beginning, although I think that the contraction will not be as great as the one we experienced in 1993. But the regime has lost the ability to answer he then, in part because the crisis facing the old pattern of response of the '80s, with the government that does everything and society nothing. Today people does not see someone who can create sensible proposals, as to their time could recognize the deposed Carlos Lage, who until the time of his exclusion was a kind of super-economy minister and a figure with very prestigious confidence, considered a serious person who took no part in the power games, but then suddenly the man was removed. The big question being asked today in the Cuban society is: Who and what can we trust? A question that remains there, and to which the state must find an answer.
And the figure of Ramiro Valdes?
It's a little like to speak of Fouché of the French Revolution. Everyone is afraid. Is not associated with the political games of power, but because of its functions does not seem to have gained the trust of the people, does not seem to enjoy great popularity. He is the man who currently holds the ranks of military issues and everything to do with the Internet, computers, and the Ministry of the Interior. It is undoubtedly a powerful and influential figure, which-perhaps for that reason or the context in which the popular imagination expects the worst, despite not knowing exactly what his intentions are. In general we can say that the scheme did not offer, is devoid of political figures that can carry oxygen to the system. This-is-for us a great opportunity, but also represents a great danger.
Who is the opposition inside the island and most indomitable conservative? What is their presence in society?
Speaking of danger, crisis and opportunity, I think one of the great dangers of this situation is that Cuban society can not clearly identify the trends that are beginning to speak again in relation to the issue of power. Within this system does not know who is right, center or left. It carries forward the idea of a large polarization, with the regime on the one hand and the people of Miami on the other.
Since people do not have other references, it is very difficult to get out of this scheme. We are trying to put an end to this misleading polarization, but it's definitely very difficult.
In Venezuela, voters have placed their trust on the one hand, in the effect of their "protest vote" to punish the defaulting politicians to their promises. On the other hand, this goes hand in hand with a "messianic vote", who dreams of a Savior who alone can solve the problems that are gripping. Something similar is happening in Cuba? The Cuban people is "messianic"?
I think this messianism is present in a society like Cuba and Venezuela, where the state has played a decisive role in the gestation and development of what they are today. For the Cuban case, the birth of our society is basically the product of a country which clashes with the Spanish State, and for that since its inception, the Cuban political culture is very dependent on all those instances and figures associated with the theme of state (as School or the police). Contrary to what happened in Venezuela, as the Cuban independence process is carried out later, the popular element had a weight that seems to me not only stronger but also involving anarchists, trade unionists and other elements in the general social, political and more "modern ideological". This undoubtedly gave rise to the nuances, important differences in political culture between the two countries, which is also expressed in messianism. In Cuba, the popular element in the origin of the state historical society and pushes the foundation to advocate that "the Elected" achieves its necessity, and this aspect does not seem to be so marked in Venezuela (at least as far as I know. ..)
I understand that you're referring to the use of the myth that the people was to create the rule, so that regaining its control through the Messiah-shift-back to have the lead role in history. Chavez has played a lot with this myth in Venezuela, saying that the people is the key, but without specifying in what way his protagonist, as this issue is more like the emotional ...
Returning to Cuba, we would like to explain why after fifty years there continues to be a lot of people in an almost religious faith in Fidel and his policies, although these same people acknowledge that it has been hard to live under this regime.
This demonstrates the power of ideological resource officers, especially the media and education, their great ability to create references and where there are hopes to dissolve possible reasons for discontent. In this regard it is interesting to note that out of Cuba speaks of "Castroism", while inside is known as "Fidel." We must also remember that it almost seems that this Cuban version of messianism has changed over time, so that the "Fidelio" of the 80s is different from the '90s, as in the last decade seemed inclined to support these initiatives created from the bottom to solve the problems I mentioned earlier, not because it was Fidel because their promoter or directing, but because he represented to them a figure from the transcendental signified, gave a methodology sense to the daily effort that people brought forward .
In August 1994 we had a demonstration ...
Exactly, in August of 1994 something very interesting happens. People begins to congregate in the Malecón in Havana, because they probably were there that would take the spears in the United States. Days passed without things they call themselves, then came the insecurity, the breaking of windows and I do not know what else, but when in this scenario appeared Fidel those who were there recognized him as the person who could solve every problem. I refuse to accept that he went there only to force the fear of the regime he represents, but in this personal system, totalitarian, and Fidel is the power that represses the person who manages to channel the discontent against this regime. His figure sums up both these aspects. And so, even if some are surprised to see that even after so many years messianism acts with such force, we must insist that this figure of the Saviour is essential for the completion of the two functions that I described in this specific situation ...
It seems to me similar to what happens in Venezuela, where many people blame the lack of a solution to its ever more numerous and different problems to the fact that "Chavez is not aware of it", but when will he be aware of the situation to them solve, rather than having it seems contradictory that his regime is responsible for most of these problems. So the problem is not the power structure but the fact that "he is not aware" ...
I think it's important to claim for Cuba, as for you in Venezuela, the need to work to develop the capacity for autonomy, its action and creation of social movements, because this is a way to end this vicious cycle that revolves around the almighty elect. That people propose ideas, believe in them and bring them forward individually. This must be the essential point and devote themselves exclusively to combat the inconsistency of messianism. Our collective approach has argued for some time focused on anti-Fidel was leaving us isolated, but we realized that it did not go anywhere. So we decided to intensify contact with the popular base through the redemption of his knowledge, his memory. This allowed us to find a way, a resource efficient way to get in touch with the creative power of the people, which is the most efficient way to ensure that people have confidence in themselves and put an end to messianism.
I agree with your words, but even here we must struggle with the attempts of the state, taking place in Venezuela, to exploit the mechanisms to become the catalyst, the depositary and the administrator of this memory and this knowledge, they become the basis for preventing an independent structure of social action triggered by low ... In addition, official speeches that claim to "support the people's power and communities" can rely on a weapon: to fund initiatives that are being built around the foundations of this discourse. This proved to be a very efficient mechanism and control of corruption to impede or corrupt the independent People's Action.
In Cuba, this has not happened, probably because the state can not rely on financial resources available to Venezuela.
We are concerned that alternative processes of the left that are emerging in Cuba may suffer repressive attacks. Anticipating such a situation, we think the fundamental guarantee that these processes would have a real input in social foundations, so that state power would proceed with more scruples the hour to attack us.
We agree with this view, because the Cuban regime is fueled by a demagogic speech, of a supposed commitment to the people, who certainly now we must ask you to reflect, when it might seem more difficult to generate the brutal response that has been the norm on many occasions the past. In my personal case, I can tell you that I have touched (although two years ago I was thrown out of work, when we pulled out a banner in the demonstration on 1 May asking it to start a socialist workers), despite the different social work activities and to promote ideas to which I took part in the recent past, especially in the district where I live..
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